1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:16,000 Music 2 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Millions of pilgrims flocked to this small town in Portugal. 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,000 It was a vision of the Virgin Mary really seen here. 4 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,000 In Ireland, believers and non-believers say they see this statue move. 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,000 Is it a miracle or does science have an explanation? 6 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:40,000 An apparition of the Virgin Mary on a church wall that has an investigator unlocked its secrets. 7 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:48,000 Mysteries from the files of Arthur C. Clarke, author of 2001 and inventor of the communications satellite. 8 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Now in retreat in Sri Lanka, he ponders the riddles of this and other worlds. 9 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:18,000 Music 10 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,000 Music 11 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,000 This fishing harbor at Nogumbo has a special significance in the history of Sri Lanka. 12 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,000 It's here that Portuguese columnists first made landfall in the 16th century. 13 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:46,000 They were after the spices that grow wild in the jungle, especially the cinnamon. 14 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,000 The Portuguese rule was brief, only 60 years. 15 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:57,000 But they left this island one enduring legacy and network of magnificent Roman Catholic churches. 16 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:06,000 Like all Catholics, the worshippers of Nogumbo have a special reverence for the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of Christ. 17 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:14,000 Back in Europe, over the centuries, a tiny handful of her followers have claimed that she has actually appeared to them in person, 18 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,000 usually with a message for mankind. 19 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,000 Such visions inspire both extraordinary mass devotion and controversy. 20 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:30,000 The faithful accept them as miracles, while skeptics probe for more down-to-earth explanations. 21 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:39,000 By neat coincidence, the answers may be found in the homeland of those who brought the Roman Catholic faith here, Portugal. 22 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:45,000 Music 23 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:54,000 They come from nearby, they come from far away, in their stockinged feet, in walking boots, and finally on their knees. 24 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Music 25 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:05,000 From all over the world, 4 million pilgrims a year flock to Fatima. 26 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:12,000 The pilgrims are drawn here because in 1917, some children said they saw a vision. 27 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,000 The faithful believe that Fatima is the sight of a true miracle. 28 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,000 Today, Fatima welcomes pilgrims in their hundreds of thousands. 29 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,000 The shrine is a far cry from the simple pastures that lay here in 1917, 30 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,000 when the three young visionaries came out to graze their sheep. 31 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:41,000 Lusia de Jesus, who was 10, came here with her cousins Francisco and Jacinta, who were 9 and 7 years old. 32 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:48,000 It was May the 13th. At midday, the children said, a bright light heralded a vision of the Virgin. 33 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,000 She told them to return on the 13th day of the next five months. 34 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,000 I think they saw, because they were sincere. 35 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:06,000 They had no influence from their parents, from other persons, so they were alone in their sincerity. 36 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:12,000 I think they have really seen a vision, yes. 37 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,000 Across Europe, shrines have been established where children had visions. 38 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:22,000 At Lord in France, Bernadette Subiru claims she saw the Virgin in 1879. 39 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:30,000 In 1961, youngsters at Garabandel in Spain proclaimed that the Virgin Mary was appearing to them. 40 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:39,000 And in 1981, six children at Medjugorje in Bosnia said the Virgin was bringing them messages of hope. 41 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:50,000 At Fatima, the highlight of each day is the evening procession, when the Virgin is paraded among the pilgrims. 42 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:57,000 It was on this spot in 1917 that the Virgin promised the children a miracle for all to see. 43 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,000 100,000 people turned up on October the 13th. 44 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,000 The day started with heavy rain. 45 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Those that had come to scoff mocked the faithful for expecting to see anything in such conditions. 46 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,000 But just before noon, the downpour stopped and the sun appeared. 47 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:26,000 Father Ghera's predecessor, as parish priest, wrote down this testimony. 48 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,000 It's noon now, it's the time of operation. 49 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:39,000 And that time, I began seeing the sun who turned around, turned around, turned around and then they stretched against me 50 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:45,000 so that I had only the time to kneel on the mat and to ask God, my God, pardon me because I die here. 51 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,000 Every person there, believer or non-believer, saw the same thing. 52 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,000 The sun appeared to move in the middle of the night. 53 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Every person there, believer or non-believer, saw the same thing. 54 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,000 The sun appeared to move in the sky. There was a blue quality to the light. 55 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:07,000 The sun appeared to get larger and larger. They thought it was coming right at them. 56 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,000 Many feared for their lives. 57 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,000 The newspaper headlines reported the sun dancing in the sky. 58 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,000 Thousands of witnesses, they said, had seen a miracle at Fatima. 59 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,000 Can science explain why the sun danced that day? 60 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:29,000 Dr Stuart Campbell thinks the crowd saw not a miracle, but a rarely observed atmospheric phenomenon. 61 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:34,000 Naturally, I was looking for a logical, rational scientific explanation, 62 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:41,000 but I was aware that dust in the atmosphere can cause the sun and sometimes the moon to change colour. 63 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:47,000 In fact, a blue sun was recorded in September 1950 at the site where Campbell now stands. 64 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:53,000 Scientists at the Royal Scottish Observatory discovered it was caused by a cloud of tiny smoke particles. 65 00:06:53,000 --> 00:07:00,000 These came from a forest fire in Canada. They'd been carried thousands of miles to Britain by the wind. 66 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,000 I concluded that the same cause must have caused the blue sun at Fatima. 67 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:12,000 The only reason there could be fine particles above Fatima at the time would be a cloud, 68 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:18,000 a fairly large cloud of fine particles moving across Portugal, western Portugal at that time. 69 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:26,000 Campbell believes the crowds at Fatima saw the sun through a dust cloud thrown up by a volcano thousands of miles away. 70 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:34,000 I looked at all the explosions of volcanoes. It has to be an explosive volcano for the dust to be thrown up in the atmosphere. 71 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:41,000 And there was a Costa Rica explosion. Volcano in Costa Rica exploded about a few weeks before this event, 72 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:48,000 although it's only about 10 degrees north of the equator. And it could be dust from that explosion that caused this event. 73 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:53,000 Campbell's suspicions were confirmed when he checked the winds prevailing at the time. 74 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:59,000 They were blowing in the right direction from Costa Rica to have created a blue sun in Portugal. 75 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:14,000 It's a simple meteorological phenomenon. The reason people thought the sun was advancing towards them was as the cloud got thinner, 76 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:20,000 the sun would get brighter and people often mistake a brightening object for an object moving towards them. 77 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:27,000 So they were used to this dull, blueish sun. Suddenly it gets brighter and yellow and seems to come advancing towards the Earth, 78 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,000 which is what they describe, but it was just the sun returning to its normal brightness. 79 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:39,000 But Dr Campbell agrees one mystery remains. He cannot explain how the miracle occurred exactly when the children predicted. 80 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Why it happened just when these children were saying, look at the sun, I can't really say except that it was a remarkable coincidence 81 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:52,000 that just as they were claiming that there was going to be a miracle, there was a rare phenomenon occurring right above their heads. 82 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,000 It was a remarkable coincidence. 83 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:04,000 In Fatima, four million pilgrims a year believe the explanation lies in more than coincidence and not in the realm of science. 84 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:14,000 I think it's a question of faith. Even for scientists, they cannot prove that it was really a natural event. 85 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:19,000 They cannot prove it. So if they cannot prove it, they believe it. 86 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:26,000 They believe it natural, they believe it supernatural. It's a question of faith. 87 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,000 I've noticed two things that most reports of sightings of the Virgin Mary have in common. 88 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:45,000 The first is that they usually come from children, some so young that we should be wary of their testimony. 89 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:52,000 The second is that they occur in very remote places such as the village of Nock in the far west of Ireland. 90 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:01,000 In 1979, the world's press landed on a vast runway at Ireland's newest international airport. 91 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:06,000 It was built thanks to a campaign by this man, Father James Horan. 92 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:16,000 He persuaded the Irish government that Horan International was the only place that could accommodate the jetloads of pilgrims that flew in to visit his parish. 93 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:24,000 For it was here a century before that an extraordinary vision of the Virgin was seen on the wall of his church. 94 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:32,000 A hundred years ago, Nock had a modest church. Its south Gable wall was plain with just a single window. 95 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:41,000 But at eight o'clock on the 21st of August during a rainstorm, the wall is said to have shone with an apparition of the Virgin Mary flanked by two saints. 96 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,000 Soon after, Nock became a place of pilgrimage, especially for the disabled. 97 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:58,000 Today an investigator has commissioned an exact replica of the Gable End Wall of Nock Parish Church. 98 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:10,000 He needs it for an experiment which he believes will explain what was really going on when the Virgin appeared. 99 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,000 Melvin Harris insists the measurements of this replica must be exact. 100 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:27,000 For this experiment, the position of the window is crucial and he needs everything in place as he believes it was on the night of the apparition. 101 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:37,000 Most important of all, he needs a magic lantern. It's the forerunner of today's slide projector and Harris believes it holds the key to unlock the mystery. 102 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:46,000 He also needs darkness and he needs rain to create the exact conditions of the night the vision was seen. 103 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:54,000 Melvin Harris looked at reports from the time. He discovered that the local priest was unpopular with his parishioners. 104 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:01,000 A miracle at the church would have changed everything. Harris believes the priest acquired a magic lantern and a mirror. 105 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:09,000 He used the lantern to project a slide through the window. The mirror then deflected the image down to the wall below. 106 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,000 The result? An apparition seemingly from nowhere and with no detectable beam of light in front. 107 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,000 What it is. 108 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:25,000 Harris is a stickler for detail. He's ordered a rainstorm from the local fireman. Everything must be exactly as it was on the night of the vision of Nock. 109 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:47,000 Now the image Harris has reproduced on the wall can be compared with the testimony of the original eyewitnesses. 110 00:12:50,000 --> 00:13:00,000 They described the figures being life-sized and say that by 5 foot 5. They also said that there were lines around the figures. 111 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:08,000 There was no question of them being flesh and blood. Statues from beginning to end. No one ever said that they saw a movement. 112 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,000 And no one ever said they saw anything that resembled a human being. 113 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:19,000 It was this testimony that convinced Harris that the priest had used a magic lantern slide to create the apparition. 114 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Evidence from witnesses further away added support to his theory. 115 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:32,000 One or two witnesses from a long way off spoke of a great circle of light on the gable end. 116 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,000 And that itself hints at a magic lantern. 117 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,000 And eyewitnesses nearer the church found they could stand next to the gable without casting shadows. 118 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,000 Harris says that proves that a mirror was used to throw the image down onto the wall. 119 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,000 And the magic lantern would have been hidden behind the church window. 120 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,000 I think that today we've solved the mystery of Nock in the most efficient way possible. 121 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:07,000 With the right equipment at the right time one can create, recreate the images that were seen by the people at Nock all those years ago. 122 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,000 And it can be done. 123 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:15,000 Miraculous manifestations of the Virgin Mary don't seem to be confined to visions. 124 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,000 Sometimes statues of her are said to move in the most mysterious ways. 125 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:34,000 In the south of Ireland a wayside shrine regularly attracts crowds of all struck pilgrims amazed because in the evening the figure seems to come alive. 126 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,000 Balenspittle stands on the coast in the southwest of Ireland. 127 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:46,000 For years this tiny hub of the local farming community buzzed with nothing more than the sound of tractors. 128 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,000 But in 1985 all that changed and the world beat a path to Balenspittle. 129 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:57,000 The object of their attention the Virgin Mary in this hillside grotto outside the village. 130 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:03,000 By day the people of this community tend the grotto and its garden lovingly. 131 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,000 They believe the place has a unique quality. 132 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,000 You can't put your finger on it like but there's something special about the place. 133 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,000 It's just like praying really when you're working for our lady. 134 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,000 Want to make the place beautiful for her and she has been very good to us. 135 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:28,000 Came here and visited us in 1985 and she's here with us all the time in a very special way. 136 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:37,000 That special way is the belief held by hundreds of thousands who've been here that the statue actually moves at night. 137 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,000 In Cork City Sergeant John Murray has seen many things in his lifetime as a policeman. 138 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,000 But none so strange as his experience the first time he went to the grotto. 139 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:54,000 As I face the grotto the statue appeared to actually leave the grotto and move to my left. 140 00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:01,000 And I would say and again I have to it's something that I will never forget because it's deeply embedded in my mind. 141 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:09,000 It was such a definite movement that the people all gasped as one and they stopped in mid-sentence. 142 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,000 And then when it stopped they carried on again. 143 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,000 But it was a very frightening very definite and positive movement. 144 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:24,000 On the following morning I stopped at the grotto and I said if there's something wrong here I want to know about it. 145 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,000 I expected to find that somebody had interfered with it that there was some sort of trick wiring or something going on. 146 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:39,000 So I climbed the grotto and I caught the statue by the shoulders and it's man sized or woman sized statue and I tried to shake it. 147 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,000 And there was no indication, no sign of any interference or anything unusual. 148 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,000 It was plainly and simply a statue set in their grotto. 149 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,000 Very, very, very much permanently fixed. 150 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:05,000 John Murray has been back to the shrine many times since then drawn there by what he saw that night. 151 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:18,000 And there was color to gray in sweet tones and announcing. 152 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,000 First to observe it back in 1985 was Cathy Omani and her children. 153 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,000 They were out one evening for a walk. As dusk fell they stopped at the grotto. 154 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,000 Kind of shimmered in and out. 155 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,000 It was if she'd waved that way and then she'd waved that way. 156 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:48,000 I saw it move back and forth like that and from side to side the top half of the statue. 157 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:56,000 You don't have to be a Catholic to see the statue move and we don't think we're special because we saw it move. 158 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:03,000 I mean, thousands of people have seen it move and our lady speaks to everybody in different ways, you know. 159 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:12,000 At Cork University, Jorak Kirakovsky was intrigued by the mystery on his doorstep. 160 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,000 He interviewed eyewitnesses and went to Balenspittle. 161 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:22,000 He too saw the Virgin move but guessed that physical factors must lie behind the phenomenon. 162 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,000 Firmly stuck down, is it? 163 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,000 Yeah. 164 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,000 Good. Don't know moving. 165 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:32,000 In a laboratory with a statue, some fairy lights and some human guinea pigs, he's set to work. 166 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,000 Can you see what is going on with the other lights now, please? 167 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:42,000 Natalie, I think we'll start with you. Can you look at the base of the statue? 168 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,000 Nice. 169 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,000 Okay, now... 170 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,000 There are two essential aspects to this phenomenon. 171 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:55,000 One is, most people don't realise it, but they move a lot, especially if they haven't got a visual reference. 172 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:08,000 So if you're standing in a dark field, in a darkened environment, you will sway more than if you're standing in a lightened environment, you know, in daylight or in a lightened room. 173 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:23,000 The second item is that we know that our eyes react very quickly to bright light and they react a lot more slowly to dim light. 174 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:36,000 If you put these two together, what you see is these people standing in a darkened environment, they're swaying around, they most probably don't realise they're swaying. 175 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:44,000 The image of the statue is going backwards and forwards on the back of their eye. 176 00:19:44,000 --> 00:20:01,000 The lightened portions of the image, the bright portions of the image, actually seem to be going faster than the darker portions, which gives rise to, if someone is swaying backwards and forwards like this, precisely, a gentle swaying motion. 177 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,000 Right. Do you want me to try? 178 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,000 Alright. 179 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,000 Thanks. How's that? 180 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:17,000 Well, the halo is moving again a little more, but I have to, body moved a small bit in comparison to the dark areas. 181 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:31,000 Right. Once you know that it's a combination of the movement and the light from the statue, we can simulate both of these effects in a laboratory to give the balance-pictal effect. 182 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:44,000 Even at the height of the war tearing apart the former Yugoslavia, the cameras proved that pilgrims would defy shells and sniper bullets to visit the shrine at Medjugorje. 183 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,000 They've congregated here through bad times and good. 184 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:57,000 Indeed, in 1992, when shells hit the church but failed to explode, Medjugorje's reputation grew still further as a place of miracles. 185 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:05,000 In 1985, six young children came down from this hill and announced that they'd seen a vision of the Virgin Mary. 186 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,000 She appeared again to them on consecutive Fridays and the word spread. 187 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:16,000 As at Fatima 60 years before, a vision by a group of children made the place a magnet for the faithful. 188 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,000 It was said that during their visions the children were truly in trance. 189 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,000 They claimed to hear nothing and to be totally unaware of their surroundings. 190 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,000 But in Montreal, Canada, a professor of parapsychology decided to investigate. 191 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:37,000 Louis Belanger took a video camera to record the children in their regular trance. 192 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:43,000 But he says what he recorded caused them to question the state of ecstasy the children experience. 193 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:50,000 When they see the Virgin Mary, the visionaries claim that they are totally disconnected from the environment, 194 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:55,000 that they don't hear other people, that they don't see other people, 195 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:01,000 that they are completely concentrated under the apparition of the Virgin Mary. 196 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,000 Every week, the Virgin is said to appear to the young visionaries at a Friday service. 197 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Belanger set up his camera and sat back to watch. 198 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:23,000 Now, they made the sign of the cross and they begin the prayer, our Father. 199 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:29,000 And during that prayer, suddenly there is the beginning of the ecstasy nailed down 200 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,000 and they are in contact with the Virgin Mary. 201 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,000 If they're truly an ecstasy, nothing should distract the children. 202 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,000 But suddenly, to Belanger's later amazement, an onlooker called Jean-Louis 203 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,000 jabbed his hand towards Witzka on the right. 204 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,000 At the moment of filming, I did not see that. 205 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,000 Just afterwards, I saw there was a commotion in the chapel. 206 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,000 Everybody was disturbed because Witzka had reacted. 207 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:06,000 Jean-Louis made a threat gesture against the eyes of Witzka, towards the eyes of Witzka. 208 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,000 And she reacted. 209 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:16,000 And it was for Jean-Louis of an important disappointment. 210 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,000 Still frames from Belanger's video at the moment of the hand lunging at Witzka 211 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,000 show her clearly recoiling from the jabbing fingers. 212 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,000 Then the fingers of Jean-Louis are going back. 213 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,000 Still no reaction for Witzka. 214 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000 A slight reaction closing over eyes. 215 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:54,000 And then, on the next picture, you have the spectacular movement of the face of Witzka. 216 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,000 She is reacting, going back. 217 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,000 After the ecstasy, I had forgotten to stop the camera 218 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,000 and suddenly Witzka comes in with somebody else. 219 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,000 She wanted to explain why she had moved. 220 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,000 In her trance, she had been trying to prevent the virgin from dropping the infant Jesus. 221 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:20,000 So she said, when I arrived in the chapel and everything was okay, 222 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:27,000 when the ecstasy began, I saw nobody and I heard nobody except the Virgin Mary. 223 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,000 And the Virgin Mary had the infant Jesus in her arms. 224 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:38,000 And suddenly I thought, said Witzka, that the infant Jesus would fall on the floor. 225 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:46,000 So to impeach that, I made a gesture to impeach the infant Jesus to fall on the floor. 226 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:59,000 And she thought that it would explain the reaction that she had against the threat gesture made by Jean-Louis. 227 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:10,000 But in the end, does it really matter whether visions of the Virgin Mary are genuine or not? 228 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:16,000 Because to millions, they bring comfort and hope in an otherwise bleak and painful world. 229 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,000 The Virgin Mary 230 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,000 The Virgin Mary 231 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,000 The Virgin Mary 232 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,000 The Virgin Mary 233 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000 The Virgin Mary